Views on Revenge

Maurer · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: Views on Revenge

What's your view on Revenge? Leave a comment and/or take the poll! Very Happy

FLechdrop · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:36 pm Post subject:

Maurer:

Hm, I can't help wondering where this thread sprang from. Very Happy

Maurer · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:42 pm Post subject:

FLechdrop,

Indeed. Laughing

I meant to mention it with a link, but forgot. Here's the discussion which spawned this poll:

Examining: Germanic Essence
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Respectfully,

-Maurer

"In jedem ist ein Bild des, was er werden soll. Solang' er das nicht ist, ist nicht sein Friede voll." - Rückert

FLechdrop · Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:12 pm Post subject:

Maurer:

Indeed. For further clarity: this is the post starting off the particular sub-discussion.

Wolfhard · Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:27 am Post subject:

To all,

I have chosen option 4: "Revenge, whether justified or not, should not be sought by the wise."

And I'm having difficulty explaining why. I believe revenge to be undesirable, unwise and immoral, yet I believe it would be one of those things where I would more easily look the other way. And as with many of such phenomena, it depends on the nature and degree of both the provocation and the revenge. Ironically, a balanced assessment of the situation is a thing one would rather expect from the wise, whom I advise to refrain from revenge altogether.

I think revenge is a thing I would most of all argue against instead of prohibit. And I would argue (to everyone) that refraining, nay abstaining from it would probably be the wisest thing to do. I do not believe in moral relativism, but I do think that morality can be undermined by moralism and is highly context-dependent.

For example, killing someone's child in an act of revenge is a thing I cannot imagine to be left unpunished, yet killing a man who has raped or killed your child is something else; revenge might be justified in the latter, but I might still consider it to be morally unwise. Of course, this is easy for me to say.

This is a hard subject indeed.

- Wolfhard

Wodanzwulf · Collaborator Joined: 14 Jan 2006 Posts: 46

I had chosen option 2. I think we should split revenge in two groups. Namely private and public revenge. The former would be taken by provate persons that have been agrieved in one form of the other like the example that Wolfhard gave about killing the raper of your child. The latter would the punshiments enacted by society for the breaking of laws and the like.

In a certain sense the deathpenalty can be vieuwed as a public form of revenge, or alternative private revenge delageted to use the deparment of Justice to use a modern term.

But I think the most important problem is a sense of proportion. What is the right amount of revenge for certain acts.

Reinelm · Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:15 am Post subject:

There is always the need to distinguish the avenger and the avenging, the actor and the deed. From a personal perspective, I believe that one is always better off when resisting the temptation to avenge. Revenge in one's mind may give rise to all sorts of negative thoughts and feeling, that may do even more harm to one's self.

Yet the act of revenge may very well be justified. In this sense it becomes a punishment, which is just. If your intent to seek revenge is based on the understanding of the justice of punishment, it makes all the difference for the affects an act of revenge will have on your own soul. Revenge can in this manner only be justified because the act itself is, not because of the emotional intent of the actor.

To apply it to the above example: When somebody kills the rapist of his daughter, his act is not justified by his murderous intent, but by the justice in the death of the rapist.
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Kind regards,

-Reinelm

"Seeking the Unavoidable"

Jephth · Junior Participant Joined: 18 Aug 2006 Posts: 19

Revenge and justice can be two arguably different things.

Petty harmless revenge is ok. If it's kind of superfluous to the world's natural ability to find an injustice and correct it, yet isn't a criminal offense then there is nothing wrong with it.

On the other hand, if someone has commited a criminal offense against you then they will be caught and punished. The only criminal that is known to have got away is one who was caught in the end.
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Jephth

FLechdrop · Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 11:19 am Post subject:

Reinelm:

Let me make this small observation, then, that the ones pursuing revenge in the sagas are often remarkably unmoved in their doing so.

Reinelm · Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:52 pm Post subject:

Flechdrop:

That would make sense to me, since being moved means being emotionally attached to the act of revenge. In such a case seeking revenge would be based on personal desire, not understanding of justice. But I guess there is a thin line, if any, between the two.

Revenge has the sense of personal desire in its meaning. So what would Justice be then, if revenge may be justified. I would almost go as far as to say that Justice is revenge that exists on a different level of existence, namely on a rational level. Perhaps revenge may in this sense be applied to the 5 Levels of Consciousness:

Body - ?
Life - Social Justice
Soul - Personal Revenge
Mind - Justice/Rational Revenge
Self - Divine Justice

Quite bold, I admit. It put quite some strain on the common meanings of the words Revenge and Justice, but I hope you get the point. Also, it gives a whole different meaning to the idea of a Vengeful God. Wink

_________________
Kind regards,

-Reinelm

"Seeking the Unavoidable"